“The Charlie Rymer Golf Show” with Dustin Johnson: Charlie’s TaylorMade Club Fitting for New Irons

Charlie needs new clubs, and he’s turned to three leading authorities on how to get his club fitting done right: Allen Terrell of the Dustin Johnson Golf School, TaylorMade Senior Director of Product Creation Tomo Bystedt, and 20-time PGA TOUR winner Dustin Johnson himself. In this episode, they walk Charlie through the paces of sizing up the best new irons for his bag.

Charlie Rymer:
I’m Charlie Rymer and this is the Charlie Rymer Golf Show powered by PlayGolfMyrtleBeach.com.

That’s the way I roll. I’m here at TPC Myrtle Beach in Murrells Inlet, South Carolina at the Dustin Johnson Golf School, and today I’m going to get a really cool fitting from Allen Terrell, DJ’s longtime coach. Allen runs a golf school along with the Dustin Johnson Foundation. And if you didn’t know the Dustin Johnson Golf School, it just got named again by Golf Digest as being one of the top 24 golf schools in the country and it’s a top 3 in the southeast. I love getting new clubs, especially really cool TaylorMade stuff. Come on.

Hey, Allen. Good to see you, buddy! We’ve got to do the-

Allen Terrell:
Hey, Charlie. Yeah, air.

Charlie Rymer:
Air touch. I’m going to tell you what, I’m happy to see you. I’m 52, folks, and things ain’t working like they used to Allen, I need a little bit of help. Can you help me out?

Allen Terrell:
We can definitely help you out. We got you covered. So, we already got some stuff set up for you. We’re going to go through our woods, get you some extra yardage if you need it. I don’t know, you hit it pretty hard.

Charlie Rymer:
I need it, I need it.

Allen Terrell:
We’re going to get those wedges dialed in so it gets some birdies, and get some irons so we can get some more greens in regulation.

Charlie Rymer:
That’s awesome. Well, I got a little surprise for you. Not that I don’t trust you, but I got on the line calling in on FaceTime, I think it’s a pretty big deal, Tomo Bystedt – and he’s the director of product creation for TaylorMade so he might be able to help a little bit, too.

Allen Terrell:
Oh man, I can use all the support you can give me. So I appreciate Tomo, he’s a great, great resource. I’ve got a surprise (too). Tomo is awesome. This guy, you may have heard of him … DJ’s going to call in.

Charlie Rymer:
No …

Allen Terrell:
He heard you were going to come by today. He wanted to be on your show and help us with your fit. So he’s going to call in from his boat down in Florida today.

Charlie Rymer:
The real Dustin Johnson?

Allen Terrell:
The real one.

Charlie Rymer:
U.S. Open champion?

Allen Terrell:
The real one.

Charlie Rymer:
20-time PGA TOUR winner, long-hitting, short talking …

Allen Terrell:
That’s definitely him.

Charlie Rymer:
Nothing bothers him.

Allen Terrell:
That’s him.

Charlie Rymer:
Let’s go, come on!

Allen Terrell:
Let’s do it.

Charlie, wrong way, brother. We’re going to go down here. Come on.

Charlie Rymer:
Go back.

Allen Terrell:
Down this way.

Charlie Rymer:
This way.

Allen Terrell:
Come on. I’ll get you ready. Just follow me.

Charlie Rymer:
So Allen, we’ve got Tomo joining us via FaceTime here. 14 years he’s been with TaylorMade. Pretty much everything that’s rolled out the door in the last 14 years, he won’t tell you because he’s a humble guy, but he’s had some influence on it. And right now he’s a director of product creation for all of TaylorMade. And Tomo, I’m a guy 52 years old, with a little bit of tour golf back in the day, a few Champions Tour events, and that age it’s catching up with me to the point where I’m checking in with Allen to see if there’s some technology that can help me out a little bit. And today, we’re talking irons. So I figured we’d go right to the top. Can you just go over your product line, in particular, things that might be interesting to somebody like me because this is my show, Tomo?

Tomo Bystedt:
Yeah. Of course, yeah.

Charlie Rymer:
I’m being a little selfish here.

Tomo Bystedt:
Yeah. Well, heck, that’s what we’re trying to do here today is we’re trying to get you in the right product. The quick overview of TaylorMade irons is basically we have two … which is really more of a game improvement type product, we have two different models there. And then we have the P family. The P family is a player’s iron and it comes in a few different flavors.

Now, looking at you and knowing your game and I’ve seen you hit balls, Charlie. Probably the last time I saw you we were out at, I want to say we were out in New Orleans at the event there, but anyway, I know your game a little bit and I think you’re going to definitely be in the P series, obviously. And there’s a couple irons that I think would work well for you. Essentially the P series work in a hierarchy where we have a blade, the 730, which is clubs like DJ and Rory both play the 730s right now. And then we have the 760s, then we have the 790s. And so, when you look at the … 790s they get gradually a little bit bigger, the number actually identifies the blade for the iron. 73 millimeters, 76 millimeters, 79 millimeters of the three irons.

Charlie Rymer:
I had no idea.

Allen Terrell:
I didn’t either.

Charlie Rymer:
Yeah.

Tomo Bystedt:
Yeah. There you go.

Charlie Rymer:
We’re learning, Tomo.

Tomo Bystedt:
A little bit of trivia right there.

Charlie Rymer:
Yeah.

Tomo Bystedt:
Yeah, exactly. And so, what the cool thing … they’re really a progression. And obviously, when you get done with the whole thing, you might end up with a bit of a combo set, too. For example, you might want to have blades in your short irons. Hey, you can totally combo these things up.

Now the thing about the 790s where they’re unique and why you see so many people using them, even among the amateur ranks and the sort of men handicappers is they look like a blade, they’re really clean looking, they’re a little slimmer design than people … and they go really far. So I think people are … and obviously they feel great as well. So that’s an iron that I start a lot of people with that. And you mentioned a little bit, hey, you brought it up, but you’re getting older, you’re not getting any younger, so that’s a way to get some of that distance potentially if you wanted it. Again, it comes with a little different shape and so you’re going to have to find out what’s your sweet spot in terms of what you’d like to look at and then we can dial in from there.

Charlie Rymer:
Yeah. I give a feel when I go to the bigger, the longer blade. When I get these in my hands I notice, hey, it feels hard. I don’t like anything that feels hard coming off an iron.

Tomo Bystedt:
That’s a great question and one we get a lot, obviously. 790s, again, very unique iron in the sense that they actually feel really, really good for what we call a “player’s distance iron.” And I would always say start there. Obviously, guys who are super sensitive, if you talk to guys like Tiger and Rory and DJ, like I mentioned, they’re not going to play that iron because their sensitivity on the field and what they’re really expecting is so precise. But I would say for the mass majority of golfer the 790s feel fantastic. So that’s where I would start. But again, if you still think they feel a little bit different from what you’re expecting, you can always go to the 760. 760 and 730 are going to have that buttery soft … at the expense of a little bit of distance. So you’re not going to get the distance that you would get with 790s. And so that’s really the determination we have to make it, I think. It’s a large part here today to figure out where on that balance you sit.

Allen Terrell:
Yeah, I like that. What do you say is the biggest difference in the feel, the 760 and 790? Have you heard much difference or is it pretty identical?

Tomo Bystedt:
The feel?

Allen Terrell:
Yes.

Tomo Bystedt:
Yeah, on the feel side, I would say that the 760s again are going to have a really, really soft feel. So when you look at all those muscle backs, those smaller forged cavity backs, the 760 feel is going to be right in line with that. The 790 is going to be a slightly different feel. I can use the word harder, you can use the word a little bit louder maybe as a better descriptor. It’s still a really crisp sound, it doesn’t sound clanky at all, it doesn’t sound like a game improvement iron. Again, but it’s on a scale, it’s on a progressive scale of if you have buttery soft over here and you have game improvement irons, typical clanky iron, over here, the 790 is still going to be like right over here, but it’s not the same feel.

Charlie Rymer:
Tomo, one of the things that’s always amazed me about you smart people that design all this equipment is how you can make a ball go farther, but it doesn’t go lower. In other words, most people think, “Oh, well, I’m testing out this new seven iron and I’m getting 10, 12 yards longer.” Well, basically it’s a six iron. Well, no, it’s a seven iron and it still flies like a seven and it looks like a seven iron, it’s got a similar loft to a seven iron and it lands like a seven iron, it just goes farther. How do you pull that off?

Tomo Bystedt:
Yeah, that’s a great question and one we get a lot actually. Like you said, it’s … loft is stronger that somehow you’re going to be hitting low bullets. The thing is when we build these irons to go farther, when we build these thin faces and we build things like speed pockets into the irons, these are all things that help the ball actually achieve a higher peak trajectory. So it allows you to go stronger loft and not give up any of that height. To your point, I think what you said was important was it looks like a seven iron in the air.

We get a lot of questions, people saying, “Well, I want the forgiveness. And I want the distance of some of these modern irons, but I want to play traditional lofts.” Well, you can do that, but the ball is going to go like stratospherically high. I mean, it’s not … vector at that point. Again, we’re designing these technologies just like drivers have evolved, Charlie, with them going higher and farther. And for that reason, again, you can manipulate lofts to get the trajectory that you’re looking for. And so, yeah, the number that’s in the spec sheet on what these lofts are, are lower, but again, we’re not sacrificing on peak trajectory.

Allen Terrell:
And the 2019 model that was the slight improvement, if I’m not mistaken from the 17.

Tomo Bystedt:
Correct.

Allen Terrell:
17 flighted a little lower for most, move some things around in the 19 model to get a little better launch.

Tomo Bystedt:
Correct, yeah. So for the P790 and the 2019 model, one of the things we did was we reshaped the tungsten piece in it and actually made the CG a little lower, and again a lower CG is going to get your ball going a little higher. So again, there was a little adjustment. When we dial these in, you want the right compromise of height and distance, and we nudged it to, again, go a little higher in the new model.

Charlie Rymer:
Tomo, thanks for that education on the irons. I’m getting an idea that I’m at 52 the blades aren’t in the picture for me. I like the idea of blending a set, I’m going to take what you say. We got a guy you might’ve heard about by the name of Dustin Johnson calling in here in a minute. I’m going to take what he says, I’m going to take what Alan says, and I’m real confident I’m going to get something I’m really going to love in your TaylorMade product.

Tomo Bystedt:
Awesome. I can’t wait to see how that turns out.

Charlie Rymer:
All right, Tomo, appreciate it. We’re going to be back next show talking to you about wedges, if you don’t mind.

Tomo Bystedt:
Cool. No, that’s fine.

Charlie Rymer:
All right. Appreciate it, Tomo.

Charlie Rymer:
All right, DJ. When I came in to get this fitting from Allen with a TaylorMade equipment today, he said you were going to be on FaceTime, I didn’t believe him, but here you are, appreciate you coming on the Charlie Rymer Golf Show. You’re at home, are you going to practice this afternoon or maybe get a little fishing in?

Dustin Johnson:
I practiced this morning and went to the gym already so now I’m going to go on the boat.

Charlie Rymer:
I’ve heard those gyms are nice. I’ve never really been in one, but I’ve heard they’re real nice.

Dustin Johnson:
Yeah, some of them are.

Charlie Rymer:
I’m not going in the gym, I’m 52, I’m trying to get a little bit of distance with some TaylorMade equipment. But before we get to that, I want to find out, we’re going to talk about irons in this show, will you walk me through the irons that you’ve got in your bag? We’ll save wedges for later, but just the pitching wedge and down.

Dustin Johnson:
Yeah, I’m playing the TaylorMade P730s which are blades with X100 shafts. I’m a little bit taller so I use a half inch over standard length and a couple degrees upright.

Charlie Rymer:
Have you seen those specs change over the years, Allen, or has been pretty much the same thing?

Allen Terrell:
It’s been pretty constant. Are you still soft step, DJ?

Dustin Johnson:
Yeah.

Charlie Rymer:
When you say soft step, what does that mean, DJ?

Dustin Johnson:
There’s a two iron shaft in my three iron, a three iron shaft in the four iron, but then they cut it off. I’ve just played that way since I was 16 and I’ve never changed.

Charlie Rymer:
Yeah, I got you. One of the things that I find interesting is looking at some of the top players in the world, looking in y’alls bags, some players will blend a set. So they’ll have blades and the short irons, but then have something with some technology in the long irons. Is that anything you’ve looked at, maybe blending a set?

Dustin Johnson:
I’ve tried it, but I liked the bigger head. I’ve used like a larger headed three iron or a two iron, but for some reason I don’t like changing the irons in my set, because I feel like if you got to set of blades, if I’ve got the three, four and five iron with bigger heads, like the way they released is different. So if I was going to play a cavity back or a bigger head, I’d play the whole set that way.

Charlie Rymer:
Yeah, that makes sense to me, Allen.

Allen Terrell:
Yeah.

Dustin Johnson:
Because every time I get … If I’m hitting my blades and then I grab a four iron with a cavity back and a three iron with a cavity back, I hit them all to the right. And just because of the release is different.

Charlie Rymer:
When you say release, are you talking about the release of the ball off the club when it lands, it’s not spinning as much? Or is it-

Dustin Johnson:
No, I’m talking about the club head releasing.

Charlie Rymer:
Oh, because of the balance is different because the blades longer.

Dustin Johnson:
Yep.

Charlie Rymer:
I got you. So yeah, you’ve been working with him since he said 16 is the same specs, not long after that, you spent some time with him. It’d be hard to, at this point, taking that release to number one in the world and mess with it, I would think.

Allen Terrell:
Well, I mean, DJ can feel something that’s a half millimeter off or a half of a gram off, so you start, as Dustin knows, and we learned from TaylorMade is 730 means how long the club is. 790 is a longer club and he feels that toe lagging a little bit more. And that’s not a good feeling for a good player with a long iron.

Charlie Rymer:
Yeah. For somebody like me, DJ, I go out, hit around with my boys. I don’t play to put meat on the table anymore, but I want to play better golf as I get a little bit older. And I’m happy to pick up a little distance and maybe give up some of the workability that you like, but that’s just got to be a sacrifice you wouldn’t be willing to make. I mean, hitting a seven iron any farther than you already hit it wouldn’t help you any.

Dustin Johnson:
No, yeah, that isn’t really something I’m looking for. I’m looking for more consistency and control.

Charlie Rymer:
How often do you switch out clubs when you start? I mean, is it the beginning of the season or sometimes does it overlap seasons? How long will you take one set of irons and keep them in play?

Dustin Johnson:
If I really liked them, I’ll play them for a couple, three years.

Charlie Rymer:
And how do you know when they’ve had enough?

Dustin Johnson:
I don’t hit a lot of golf balls, so I don’t wear them out that bad.

Charlie Rymer:
That’s why you go to catch a fish, right?

Dustin Johnson:
Yeah, exactly. I’m good at both.

Charlie Rymer:
Yeah. Well, I understand. Tell us about the pig you got running around in the backyard.

Dustin Johnson:
Yeah, it’s little, it’s a miniature pig that I came home the other day and I saw it running around the house.

Allen Terrell:
A little surprise.

Dustin Johnson:
Slightly. I was told that we were just borrowing it for a few days and it’s been about three weeks now … borrowing it.

Charlie Rymer:
Is it growing fast?

Dustin Johnson:
No, it doesn’t. I don’t think it’s going to get any bigger than it is now.

Charlie Rymer:
All right. We appreciate you taking us through your bag. We’ll talk about wedges on our next show. Stick with us if you wouldn’t mind.

Dustin Johnson:
Okay, thanks.

Charlie Rymer:
All right, Allen, we’ve heard from some pretty decent experts in the field in Tomo Bystedt and Dustin Johnson. And I got my glove on, I’m ready to get after it. What’s the first step in fitting me and some TaylorMade irons?

Allen Terrell:
Well, the first thing I want to see what your current seven iron does. So we’re going to use our TrackMan technology, get some spin numbers, some launch numbers, get your club head speed, and then that’ll start help us whittle down some options for you. And of course, as a player, it’s about, especially a good player like yourself, is what you like to look down at. Do you like a longer toed, or do you like a shorter club and we’ll have to talk through that.

Charlie Rymer:
I’ll tell you what I like looking down at is my ball near the hole after I’ve hit an iron, that’s what I like looking down at.

Allen Terrell:
I’ve got something for you. All right, let’s get going.

Charlie Rymer:
All right, seven iron, you said.

Allen Terrell:
Yes, sir.

Charlie Rymer:
Oh, I’m just going to hit some normal pull standard seven irons is what you want.

Allen Terrell:
Yeah, and TrackMan’s running so it’ll pick up every shot target line. We’ll go around that yellow flag there.

Charlie Rymer:
Okay. That yellow flag right there.

Allen Terrell:
The one you just flew over the top of.

Charlie Rymer:
For what it’s worth, that’s a good seven iron for me. I don’t know what the numbers are, but I felt pretty good.

Allen Terrell:
What do you usually hit a seven?

Charlie Rymer:
I like to think that I’m a comfortable 168 with a seven iron. You’re going to tell me what that one was, you going to make me guess?

Allen Terrell:
I’m going to have to make you guess. You’re the pro. That one went a little further a bit.

Charlie Rymer:
One more and then we look at it?

Allen Terrell:
Yeah, let’s do one more.

Allen Terrell:
All right, so let’s look at a look at our numbers here. We’re going to start-

Charlie Rymer:
That’s a lot of info.

Allen Terrell:
Yeah. Some of that is a lot of times when we do a fitting we don’t show that to the player. So the average carry 160, speed average around 83. So then launch is pretty good, it’s around 16, that’s PGA TOUR average with a seven. Spin numbers. Are you usually a lower or higher spin guy?

Charlie Rymer:
I don’t even know how to answer that question.

Allen Terrell:
Okay, do you usually hit it lower?

Charlie Rymer:
I try to hit it low is what I like to do. I’m more comfortable hitting it low, but I always feel like if I have to, I can get up in the air.

Allen Terrell:
As a kind of a baseline, you take the club you’re hitting add three zeros and that’s a baseline spin. You’re going to be lower than that. Some guys are higher just based on the attack angle and loft, but we’re around … I would take out probably one of those, but we’re around 6,500 spins. So we’re probably going to want a lighter weighted S flat shaft. So probably not 120, probably again, it’s just based on the player. If that player wants to spin it more then that’s going to change but I think you probably would like a little lighter gram.

Charlie Rymer:
Well, yeah, that’s a concession I’m making it 52. It sort of hurts the ego to say, well, you’ve always played an X and now you need an S and a little bit lighter, but yeah, that’s being realistic.

Allen Terrell:
Yeah. X, again, everyone kind of loads the club differently and things like that, but X we’d look at maybe if someone’s closer to 90 and plus miles per hour as a seven. Someone between 80 and 90 we’d look at an S. And then spin rate determines how heavy of a shaft we give the player.

Charlie Rymer:
All right. You got something-

Allen Terrell:
I got something made up for you already. Had an idea what you may want. We’re going to look at a 105 gram S flex, your three quarter inch over, one degree up, I went ahead and bent one of our … fit clubs to hit that spot.

Charlie Rymer:
Yeah. I’ve pretty much been that spec my whole life. That’s not really something that changes that much the lie angle and the length of the club.

Allen Terrell:
No, it shouldn’t. The lie angle may change based on if a player may go through a swing change or something, and they’re delivering the club from a different path, but usually we don’t get hopefully shorter, I doubt we’re going to get taller at 52. So hopefully that won’t change.

Charlie Rymer:
You never know.

Allen Terrell:
So we’re going to try the new line of TaylorMade, the 790, it’s a 2019 model. Really, really popular club. It does hit the ball a little further, so we may see-

Charlie Rymer:
Well, stop talking and go get it for me, I want to see if it goes even farther.

Allen Terrell:
All right, let’s do it.

Charlie Rymer:
You hook me on farther.

Allen Terrell:
Here we go.

Charlie Rymer:
So this is the P790. Tomo was telling us the 790 has to do with the length of the club so this is a longer blade then.

Allen Terrell:
Yeah, from heel to toe. That’s a little longer. I’m going to code that so we can look at the difference here.

Charlie Rymer:
I like the look of it.

Allen Terrell:
What’s the first thing you noticed when you looked down at it compared to what you have?

Charlie Rymer:
I just like how clean it is and it has a nice players sort of blade look. It’s got a little offset, but not too much offset. And it’s got a hint, and this is what I really like, it’s got a hint that there’s some stuff in there that’ll help you out a little bit. Like this port up here, I don’t know what goes in that port, but I’m guessing it’s some stuff that helps me out a little bit.

Allen Terrell:
There’s some good stuff. There’s a little tungsten, a little speed foam in there. It’s a little thinner faced iron which helps create some distance. What’s great about this set a lot of times players like the look of the seven and the eight irons, but then they get to the four and five and they’re like, “Oh, that looks a little thin.” This continues to have that look throughout the bag.

Charlie Rymer:
Well, let me see what this feels like. Yellow flag?

Allen Terrell:
Yes, sir. Let’s stay on that target.

Charlie Rymer:
Allen, I don’t know what the numbers are going to say, but I’m going to tell you that it’s as good as I can hit it.

Allen Terrell:
Well, that’s pretty darn good. So that ball already went to the furthest of any that you’ve hit. That one went to the four year average in Kerry, you were averaging 160 and that one flew 67.

Charlie Rymer:
I like it.

Allen Terrell:
What’s cool is the club head speed was about the same, you actually swung that a little faster than 84.

Charlie Rymer:
I didn’t get that one quite as good, but I’m betting the numbers aren’t that far off.

Allen Terrell:
Yeah. Carry, no, maybe a little toe bias on the strike there. Still you’re swinging that club faster than your current one.

Charlie Rymer:
That one went all horrible.

Allen Terrell:
All right. So we look at the differences and we throw up what we call our jelly bean here. And we look at one is dispersion. We may tinker the lie angle a little bit to help … Some of these finish just a little left of the target. But it’s a lot tighter jelly bean here, a lot tighter dispersion. Picked up about three … about two yards longer distance, and that’s just swinging it about four times. So you just getting used to the weighting of that club, you’d pick up even more speed. Club head speed overall, you swing that one about one to two miles per hour faster than what you had before.

Charlie Rymer:
Really? Allen, I think we got a winner. I really liked the feel of the P790. It looks good to me even though there’s got a lot of technology in there, I sort of like that. I need a little reinforcement and in combination with a shaft it’s a little bit lighter, maybe a little bit softer than what I’ve been playing-

Allen Terrell:
Yeah, a little bit.

Charlie Rymer:
… it feels good and I liked the idea I can pick up a little bit more speed, which equals a little more distance.

Allen Terrell:
Yeah, and as you know, Charlie, being a good player, the proximity and the dispersion for irons is just as important. Your dispersion was better and you hit that a little bit further. So it’s kind of a win-win obviously.

Charlie Rymer:
What the man’s saying is longer and straighter is good. Allen, I appreciate it.

Allen Terrell:
You got it.

Charlie Rymer:
Boom, boom. Next show we’re going to dig into the wedges. You want to make sure you catch up with us on that folks. I’m going to hit a few more.

Allen Terrell:
All right. Let’s see it.

Charlie Rymer:
Thanks for joining us. I’m Charlie Rymer. We’ll see you next time on the Charlie Rymer Golf Show powered by PlayGolfMyrtleBeach.com!