The Experts’ Take, Episode 5: The Value Proposition in Golf

Where is it, and where does it need to be? Our all-star panel takes on this topic in a lively discussion that includes Golf Channel/Sirius XM’s Michael Breed, renowned swing guru Hank Haney, Golfweek’s Geoff Shackelford, Golf Channel/PlayGolfMyrtleBeach.com’s Charlie Rymer, pro golfer/social media personality Paige Spiranac and Golf Tourism Solutions’ Bill Golden.

 

Bill Golden:
Well here’s the thing about time, and I’d love to hear you guys’ perspective on this. So every search, research that’s ever been done in the game of golf, it’s time, money, and challenge, which is a value equation. That’s another way of saying I need to get my value out of that. I’d rather go spend my money at the movie theater or doing something else. And if it’s the value equation, how do we positively impact their experience? And to me, I think it is by making them a little better. I told Hank a story earlier, we do reams and reams of research down here, right? And by the way, this is frustrating that no one here knows the answers to these questions. Why aren’t we researching this stuff? Somebody should be researching this stuff. Reams and reams about consumer satisfaction at the golf course. And the two golf courses that pop up every year by far are good golf courses, they’re not the best golf courses, but they’re the easiest golf courses. What does that tell you?

They walk off that golf course, if the beer was warm, if the soup was cold, but “I shot the best round in 6 months.” They don’t realize that it was a lot shorter than what the card said or that it was a par 70. They walk off of there and they’re feeling happy about themselves. Had a great day out here. Yeah, it was just awesome out here, because they played, in their minds, they played a little bit better. There is something to that.

Michael Breed:
Okay, so let’s assume that is, how come the superintendent isn’t in any of the meetings? And how we set the pins? Is there any training on the guy? I mean, the places where I’ve seen people put hole locations, or tee markers, that the lack of education of the guy who’s setting up the golf course is pretty poor. I mean, I come from this as a golf professional, so I’m going to protect my industry, but my point is that when you look at all this, there’s way more to this than just: If there’s more rounds played, then I’m going to pay my golf professional more. What about my superintendent?

Geoff Shackelford:
Well, the superintendent has become the most valuable member of the staff at every facility because their organization is better organized, they’ve raised their profile, they’re better at what they do than they’ve ever been. They’re better at setting up courses. I’m sorry, there’s still some bad ones, and yeah their greens are too fast but that’s a different issue, that’s not golf course superintendent. That is the person who is the most vital member at most clubs, and most high-end golf courses.

Michael Breed:
And if you look at graduation rates from North Carolina State relative to people – do you know this? – about people that are trying to get into the business, they’re leaving the superintendent business.

Geoff Shackelford:
They are leaving. Yeah.

Michael Breed:
And right now, all the problems that are happening in our game, that’s the biggest one.

Bill Golden:
There’s no question about it.

Geoff Shackelford:
But Bill pointed out those two golf courses that are fun and people have a great time in, because they’re playable, they’re well designed, they have great vibes to them. I know one of them, and it’s a great experience, and it’s a relaxed experience, it’s a fun one, and I’m sorry guys, but that gets back to golf course design, and scale of the game and both of those places are very intimate scale.

Michael Breed:
And the distance that the ball’s traveling, and how far people have to …

Geoff Shackelford:
Well, you want to stretch everything out…

Michael Breed:
And we want to make it easier because people want to play it more.

Geoff Shackelford:
I’m telling you, it’s very hard to build a Caledonia for most owners who see those numbers and go, “Yeah, I want a 6,200-yard place that’s fun.” They see the way the game goes and so it’s a weird mentality.

Michael Breed:
So then who’s fault is that? Because they look at the 6,200 and they go, “Well, I don’t know if I’m going to drive anybody to play our game, and yet, that’s more fun and more people are going that’s more fun, I’m going to go.” So, who’s the fault?

Charlie Rymer:
It’s the owner’s fault.

Michael Breed:
So now we’re back to a different thing, which is the owner!

Bill Golden:
This is the whole thing, so how do we not know? How is any organization or association, we don’t know any of these answers, and sometimes I feel like as an industry, we’re afraid to put out that facts. The 1996, ’97, ’98 phenomenon with the rounds, that group of golfers is, how many years older now? And that’s a problem. So in the next 10, 15 years as that group begins to play less golf as they get older, what’s behind them is not nearly equal to what was there 20 or 30 years ago. And why aren’t we having a debate about this nationally? Are we trying to hide this fact?

Hank Haney:
I mean, everybody tries to make it through the next month. And that’s the problem with all this “Grow the Game” and everything else, you see with the equipment companies, they’re worried about their next quarter, they’re not worried about three years from now, and golf course owners are the same way. To Michael’s point, you’ve got to pay enough. You want all this stuff, you’ve got to pay these people. You already have a tight budget, you’re already having a hard time making ends meet, you can’t be having no carts out there, we’re just going to have a caddy program now, I mean, how am I going to replace that revenue? These questions, a lot of them are budget questions. You can’t just all of a sudden make more money without getting people out there playing, and taking carts and doing everything they’re doing. That’s the big, big problem.

Bill Golden:
It’s definitely a budget question, and that’s what gets cut first, but isn’t it as a result of a lack of demand for that individual golf course or city or destination, or for golf in general? If the supply and demand equation is upside down, and it is, we were talking earlier; so many golf courses were built for real estate, not the demand for tee times. So there’s a problem: what do we do to increase that demand? And that’s why we’ll circle back to instruction. Where’s the low-hanging fruit to get someone who’s playing 10 rounds to play 20 rounds?

Geoff Shackelford:
Maybe picking on instruction is unfair. We talked about the experience more, and the positive is, the younger group coming up is starting to bring some values that you see in restaurant industry, hotel industry, the adjustments being made there. Golf courses are starting to adjust: better food and beverage, better vibe, trying to make it more relaxed, and maybe that’s what we need to focus on more is just that sense that it’s a nice, fun place to go, and that will take care of a lot of things. I would say it starts with the golf pros, no longer being the vital person they used to be at the golf facility. Your point that sitting in an office instead of just hanging in the 19th hole, or playing and emergency 9 with the young kids, and showing them how a good golfer plays.

Charlie Rymer:
What that does is that commoditizes the golf business. If I run a golf course, and I hire you, I want you to be Michael Breed, and I want somebody, if they’re driving by my golf course to go down the street to play at a golf course that’s 5 dollars less, because they got a deal online somewhere, I want them feeling guilty that they’re letting you down. You can’t have that relationship with my client if you’re sitting in an office running a business. That’s why I want you walking the range during business hours, that’s why I want you out front, greeting people, dealing with people.

Michael Breed:
Here’s what I would tell you: what I would tell you is that if you look at the model of walking into a club and compare it to the model of going into a restaurant, the person that you greet when you go into a nice restaurant is the maitre d’. And the maitre d’ welcomes you and tells you, here, you’re going to be dealing with this person and you have somebody who brings you to your table, which is another touch. And then you have somebody who brings you water, which is another touch. And then you have somebody who takes your order, and that’s another touch, and then somebody who’s actually going to bring you drinks. You have all these people taking care of you, and our model is we take the least experienced individual and put them in the most important positions. And that is the individual when you drive up, is an outside operations guy that you’re paying five bucks an hour, or ten bucks an hour, whatever you pay him, but that’s your least-paid employee.

Charlie Rymer:
You and I are saying the same thing.

Michael Breed:
But here’s the problem.

Charlie Rymer:
It doesn’t work.

Michael Breed:
Well, no. It has to start with there’s a dollar figure in this whole thing. What can you afford? What can you afford? Ask yourself the questions of, how can I get people to my event, my place, and get them the touches that I need? Well, I’ve got to make more money. How can I make more money? Well, do I have to use the range as only a range? Could I have Hootie and the Blowfish out here with a concert? Could I sell tickets? Would people come and sit in the range and listen to Hootie and the Blowfish? Probably. Is anybody doing that?

Hank Haney:
If you’re using those pros to do what you said, Charlie, I mean that’s a way to grab markets here. But I don’t know if that’s really a way to grow the game and to grow the overall pie. I mean, it’s a good way to market (yourself) from a club down the street that’s five minutes away. But I don’t know if it really grows the pie.

Paige Spiranac:
I think a big problem, too, is that we see the pros play on these courses every single week, but they’re not courses that most people can go and play. And so they’re the ones that are getting the most marketing value because they’re on TV, they’re being talked about constantly, yet when you go to try to get a tee time at Riviera, good luck. And then say you do get there, and it’s not the experience that you expect it to be. You can’t go down there unless a member is with you, or if you can’t do this because of all these rules. And so these courses that could be getting the most value, they’re not, because they’re all private, or they’re exclusive. And I think that adds into the value of “I can only play this course,” “this course isn’t all that nice,” “I want to play this course.” “That’s the ultimate course, and I can’t play it.” So again, it’s not welcoming.

Charlie Rymer:
If you can, it’s $550 for just the caddy.

Paige Spiranac:
And is it really that great of an experience? Are the members nice to you? Are you allowed to go in certain areas? I can’t go into certain clubhouses. I can’t go and sit down, or do I know the rules of taking my hat off, or all of these things, and that’s not welcoming, and that’s not great. And that’s a really simple, easy change to get more people involved in the game. But the reality is, again what I go back to, the people who are members there, they don’t want outside people coming in again. So that goes to the growing the game. We either need to stop saying that and accept golf for what it is and say “this is golf, we love it, it’s doing well, it’s doing good enough.” Or, do we actually want to make a change, and grow the game and make people feel more accepted, make it inclusive, not as elitist. So there are two different sides to it, but we need to stop saying that this is what golf is and what we want it to be when it’s not that.