“Balls in the Air with Charlie Rymer” Podcast Episode 29: New Year … New Co-Host?
“Balls in the Air” is back, and this time with … a new co-host? David Williams of PlayGolfMyrtleBeach.com joins Charlie in the studio to discuss his background, Charlie’s time on tour, the PGA TOUR, and more. Enjoy the episode!
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Transcript
Charlie Rymer (00:22):
(Intro music)
Charlie Rymer (00:27):
Hi, and welcome into the Charlie Rymer, Balls in the Air Podcast. I hope that 2022 is off to a great start for you. I know it is for me, because right here in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, golf capital of the world, I’m sitting in a shiny new studio. I’m going to even say it’s my studio. And lots of new things for lots of people, including my new co-host, David Williams. David, I’ve never met you in my life. I don’t know who you are. All of a sudden, I showed up one day and they’re like, “Oh, you got a new co-host, it’s David.” Tell the people about yourself, David.
David Williams (01:02):
Yeah, so-
Charlie Rymer (01:02):
Actually, I do know a lot about David.
David Williams (01:03):
So Charlie I’ll fill you in, and the people in, on myself. I’ve been in Myrtle Beach, working for Golf Tourism Solutions and PlayGolfMyrtleBeach.com for-
Charlie Rymer (01:12):
In this building?
David Williams (01:13):
In this building.
Charlie Rymer (01:13):
I’ve seen you around here-
David Williams (01:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Charlie Rymer (01:15):
… from time to time.
David Williams (01:16):
We’ve done a couple little tiny things together. It’s nothing really important, folks. But I’ve here in Myrtle beach for about four years. It’ll be four years in March. I have a background in video editing from broadcasting school. I realized very early on that I wasn’t meant… My dream was to be working for NBC, Golf Channel, somebody doing on air stuff, on course, in the studio, stuff like that. And I very quickly realized during our performance class that I was definitely not meant for that. So I immediately …
Charlie Rymer (01:48):
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Broadcast school.
David Williams (01:49):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (01:49):
So, like I’ve been a broadcaster for 25 years. I don’t know anything about broadcasting. I mean, hell, I even made a D in public speaking at Georgia Tech. I don’t know anything about broadcasting, but when I walked through control rooms, you know whether it’s for our new studio here or big control rooms on network shows I’ve been able to do. I see all kinds of buttons and …
David Williams (02:09):
Oh yeah.
Charlie Rymer (02:09):
… flashy things and meters. I have no idea what any of that stuff is. You actually know what that stuff is.
David Williams (02:15):
For the most part, yeah. So I went to Western Kentucky University for some of you folks that maybe are Tennessee and Kentucky listeners might actually know where that is.
Charlie Rymer (02:23):
Are those Hilltoppers?
David Williams (02:24):
The Hilltoppers, correct.
Charlie Rymer (02:25):
Hilltoppers.
David Williams (02:26):
See, smart guy.
Charlie Rymer (02:26):
Uh-hu.
David Williams (02:27):
So freshman year they kind of like, it’s kind of, they hold your feet to the fire. They try to weed out the people who just couldn’t decide on a major and they wanted to pick broadcasting. So they put you in the control room. And then the second part of it is performance classes. For me, the easiest part was the control room. I learned my way around relatively quickly. But I’m like, I want to be on camera. And then I got in the full…
Charlie Rymer (02:54):
Yeah because you think you’re pretty?
David Williams (02:55):
Yeah. I mean, yeah.
Charlie Rymer (02:56):
And there’s really only a few of us that are actually pretty enough to be on camera.
David Williams (03:00):
Absolutely. I mean, my mother always told me I had a face made for radio. So first performance class, second semester, my freshman year and I sit down, I’m ready to go and they’re like, all right, floor director counts down like five, four or three. And I’m like, then I just like froze. I very quickly realized that I was meant to be behind the camera and be an editor and stuff. So I started working on doing news stories around Bowling Green, doing news stories for WKU Sports. And then just kind of parlayed that with my marketing minor into this job here now, working in social media for GTS and play [crosstalk 00:03:39]
Charlie Rymer (03:39):
So I got a question for you, the guy that counts backwards by, because it starts out with like the full hand five, four, and then, and I never hear the two, one, I’m assuming that’s intentional. That’s called a floor director.
David Williams (03:51):
Yes.
Charlie Rymer (03:51):
See, I’ve already learned something.
David Williams (03:52):
There you go.
Charlie Rymer (03:53):
See, I mean, I knew the person was there. I didn’t know the job title.
David Williams (03:57):
Yes. It’s a floor director. You’re a smart, quick, quick learner.
Charlie Rymer (04:02):
I’m going to have to start writing some of this stuff down that I’m learning from you.
David Williams (04:05):
You should, you should.
Charlie Rymer (04:06):
Well, tell me, I mean, we’ve been out on the golf course some, I mean, I wouldn’t say that you really have a golf game. I mean, you clearly enjoy playing.
David Williams (04:14):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (04:15):
I mean you’re good player. Tell me about your experience with golf. Why you love this game so much?
David Williams (04:21):
So I got into golf back…I played it when we lived in St. Louis, but obviously in the wintertime, St. Louis in the winter, it’s miserable. So,
Charlie Rymer (04:31):
And the summer is pretty miserable too.
David Williams (04:33):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (04:33):
It’s why you people from St.Louis are grumpy.
David Williams (04:36):
I wouldn’t say that. I mean, if you talk to some people maybe, but,
Charlie Rymer (04:41):
Well, they make beer there that keeps you from being too grumpy.
David Williams (04:43):
Absolutely.
David Williams (04:44):
And the food is… So we moved to Atlanta when I was in seventh grade or so, and I realized quickly that I could play golf year around. So I just, I didn’t play any other sports. I just put everything towards golf and played golf all four years in high school. My swing is homemade. I’m sure as you can tell, it’s horrible, but I’ve just figured out the timing and it works.
Charlie Rymer (05:08):
I could help you with that, but I’d honestly rather watch it keep struggling. It’s more fun for me.
David Williams (05:12):
So you could keep taking my money and stuff, but in high school, after school each day dad and I would go hit golf balls or go walk nine holes. That’s kind of really when I fell in love with it. Then in college, I’d go back home or I’d stay in Bowling Green and work for a golf course. So I got obviously playing privileges, which was nice.
Charlie Rymer (05:33):
Yeah.
David Williams (05:33):
And that’s when I really like started to really try to get back to playing competitive golf. It’s fun. It’s an escape. It’s four hours to turn your brain off, escape the actual reality of life and it’s just, I don’t know. It’s just fun for me.
Charlie Rymer (05:50):
I know you love it. We’re joking about, had no idea who you are. We’ve been working together for quite a few years now.
David Williams (05:56):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (05:56):
We do have a lot of fun and I’m thrilled that you’re going to be stepping in from time to time quite often helping me with the podcast. I just want you to know in this, in this partnership, I’m being real clear right up front. This is show one with you and our partnership, I’m Batman and you’re Robin.
David Williams (06:12):
Deal. That’s fine. I’m I don’t care. It’s fine. You know what I’m, we’ll take it. I’ll sign that piece of paper sitting right there right now.
Charlie Rymer (06:19):
All right. You got it. Have you been paying much attention to the PGA tour?
David Williams (06:23):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (06:23):
Season. I don’t want to say this getting off to a start because the tour, listen, I remember the tour for not as long as I’d wish that I would’ve been, but they can talk about all they want how the tour starts in the fall. The tour doesn’t start until we get to Hawaii.
David Williams (06:43):
Exactly. I’ll even hammer that point home for you even more. Like I said, love golf, watch it a lot, very invested in. I had a golf blog that covered the PGA tour for before I got this job. And I watched, the last thing I watched was the Ryder Cup. Then I didn’t watch a single event, but the moment that Kapalua came around, I tuned into that. I watched a little bit last week when I was able to. So I agree with you. I don’t think it really starts until Hawaii.
Charlie Rymer (07:14):
Well the thing about it is events in the fall are very important. You get through a year and it’s the Olympics, and then you got one of the big international team competitions. I’ve really grown to enjoy the playoffs. East Lake, we get drama every year and it’s like, everybody goes home for a week, a week. And then, oh, it’s the start of the PGA tour season. I ain’t buying it. Nobody else is by on it either. The TV rating show those are friends and family events is what they are.
Charlie Rymer (07:43):
Now they’re really important events.
David Williams (07:44):
Yes.
Charlie Rymer (07:45):
In particular to the players, because if you go in at a time of year, as a player, when a lot of folks at the top players might be, I’m not going to say blowing them off, but not playing, if you’re a member of another tour, you got to go play that time of year. You got to play some home events on your other tour. You need to have some time off.
David Williams (08:05):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (08:05):
But if you can slide in and get off to a good start in those fall events, it’s great for you, but nobody’s watching.
David Williams (08:13):
No. Like Max Homa won in the fall last year and he’s kind of set up for almost the rest of the year.
Charlie Rymer (08:20):
Right.
David Williams (08:20):
As long as he just plays decently well, and doesn’t miss every cut. I have a hard time because from a fan perspective, and I’m sure some people out there probably think the same thing, but it’s such a long year. From Hawaii to Augusta, that’s the downhill run. Everybody’s very excited week in week out where everybody’s looking forward to Augusta. Then kind of after that, it kind of loses a little bit of steam, I feel like. You get into the summer, people are traveling, they’re not necessarily sitting down to watch golf as opposed to right now, when it’s Hawaii, Phoenix, California, [crosstalk 00:08:57] when it’s cold. Get gets fired up,
Charlie Rymer (08:58):
It gets fired up. People love, you’re sitting in Ames, Iowa, and you’re looking at people playing golf in Honolulu and they’re shooting 900 million under par.
David Williams (09:06):
It’s like, I want to do that.
Charlie Rymer (09:07):
I want to do that.
David Williams (09:07):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (09:08):
And then we get to Phoenix Open and you see all the crowds out there, the energy and all that, and it’s easy to get it fired up. I think having a PGA Championship moved to May, that to me makes a lot of sense. Then the Player’s Championship is back in the colder part of the year. So you’re looking at, you got players March and that’s a better golf course. It’s over seeded. The weather makes it more interesting. The winds swirly you’re around 17. You’ve basically got a big event. April, May, June, July, all the way right up into the Tour Championship. But it’s this big crescendo and what happens is if the other crescendo, everybody goes home for a while.
David Williams (09:48):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (09:48):
It doesn’t happen anymore. The going home part what doesn’t happen.
David Williams (09:52):
Yeah. A lot of players have kind of voiced their, I wouldn’t say frustration with it, but they’re just kind of like, “Hey, baseball, football, hockey, basketball, they all have off seasons.”
Charlie Rymer (10:04):
Right.
David Williams (10:04):
And they’re kind of like, “Hey, we don’t have off seasons.” We can’t go play the Safeway or any of those, not that they don’t want to, but they’re people too. They need time off.
Charlie Rymer (10:15):
Yeah.
David Williams (10:15):
I’m sure when you were playing on tour and everything, you probably felt the same way a couple times when it was super busy and you were like, I need some time off.
Charlie Rymer (10:23):
Yeah. Oh, I needed a lot of time off. Most of the time I took off was on Saturday and Sunday, which wasn’t really well. Didn’t work very well.
David Williams (10:31):
I didn’t say that. He said it. He said it. I did not say that.
Charlie Rymer (10:36):
Yeah. I joke that I used to buy the cheap tickets to fly home on Friday night. If I happened to make the cut, I’d pay the change feed to go home on Sunday. I didn’t have to pay too many change fees. I almost get the feeling that the objective of the PGA tours show every shop by every player, more golf every day, all day long and that sounds good, but I go back to the Masters still doesn’t have complete coverage and people are dying to get more. It’s almost like you’d rather have them dying to get more than showing them more than they could possibly consume.
David Williams (11:14):
Yeah and obviously you’ve called the Masters a handful of times for Westwood One and everything, but the Masters, in my opinion, does the best job of showcasing golf through the app and through…
Charlie Rymer (11:29):
Their app is good. Masters app is good. [crosstalk 00:11:32] It’s the best app. Not in golf. Not in sports. That’s the best app I’ve ever seen of any app.
David Williams (11:38):
It never seems to go down.
Charlie Rymer (11:40):
Yeah.
David Williams (11:41):
There’s probably hundreds of thousands of people.
Charlie Rymer (11:44):
Right and picture quality…
David Williams (11:45):
-Is perfect. It’s unbelievable. For the tour it’s interesting because they want to show, like you said, they want to show as many shots as possible. On the other hand though, they have to sell commercial spots. They have to fulfill these TV contracts. So it kind of gets hard. So then they have PGA Tour Live and they did an awesome thing with PGA Tour Live and integrating it with ESPN+.
Charlie Rymer (12:08):
Yeah. I’ve had a chance to do some of that PGA Tour Live. I love doing it. It’s a good product, but you wonder when you’re doing it, like on a Thursday, starting at seven in the morning,
David Williams (12:20):
Who’s watching?
Charlie Rymer (12:21):
-And you go all the way into the live, who, I mean,
David Williams (12:24):
How many people are watching?
Charlie Rymer (12:25):
Right. Who’s watching? Where are they watching and sitting? Shouldn’t somebody be working somewhere?
David Williams (12:30):
Exactly.
Charlie Rymer (12:30):
You just wonder.
David Williams (12:31):
I think maybe ESPN will help, ESPN+ will help with that. But still, outside of, like you said, the Masters, in my opinion, does the best job of showcasing as many golf shots as possible, but even they can’t show every golf shot. It’s just kind of like an, almost like an unrealistic expectation.
Charlie Rymer (12:52):
They can’t show every shot, but you can navigate through their app and whoever your favorite player is, anyone in the field, you can watch every shot that they hit.
David Williams (13:02):
Yes. That’s the only technology, I think that they’re the only ones that can do that.
Charlie Rymer (13:06):
Well, I think the tour is moving in that direction.
David Williams (13:09):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (13:11):
The idea that you could watch a sporting event and basically produce and direct your own sporting event and watch who you want to watch when you want to watch, that’s pretty cool stuff.
David Williams (13:23):
There’s really no other league that’s honestly doing that.
Charlie Rymer (13:26):
Yeah.
David Williams (13:27):
I guess golf is unique in that kind of way professional golf is, but yeah, it’s incredible because part of that is just because they have so many players that they have to keep up with.
Charlie Rymer (13:37):
Yeah. It’s hard. One of the things that attracted me to broadcasting TV was I wasn’t a huge practicer as my wife told me quite a few times. You play golf and you go practice for an hour or two hours. I mean, seriously practicing like a tour player for an hour or two hours. That’s different than what most people might think. That’s a lot of time you got to rest. Well, let’s say you got an early morning tee time on Thursday, you’re leaving the golf course at three o’clock and it’s like, well, I can go back to my hotel room and what am I going to do? Or I can go over here and I’ve made friends with most of the broadcasters and I’d go sit in the production truck in the compound or go get in one of the towers.
Charlie Rymer (14:26):
I would just sit and watch and listen. They’d give me a spare headset. I was just fascinated by the business. It wasn’t anything that I was thinking about doing down the future, I was just killing some time. And I love like Gary McCord, David Feherty, those guys were great to me, Andy North, Billy Kratzert, Peter Costas. It was just cool. They’re great folks. They’re cool folks and fun to hang out with. And you’re on the road on tour and you don’t know the city. You go to dinner with Gary McCord, it’s like you’re a rookie on tour. That’s like the cool thing. That’s how I got exposed to broadcasting. Even in those days, a television broadcast is not even a major championship, there’s 300 people working on it.
David Williams (15:13):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (15:14):
And the complexity behind it is unbelievable. It’s highly orchestrated and these people are pros.
David Williams (15:22):
Yes.
Charlie Rymer (15:23):
And they’ll tell you the two hardest sports to broadcast are golf and auto racing.
David Williams (15:29):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (15:29):
Because you pretty much think about it, just about any other sport, nothing happens while you’re at commercial.
David Williams (15:34):
No.
Charlie Rymer (15:34):
There’s only like one ball.
David Williams (15:36):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (15:36):
Or one person, you know,
David Williams (15:37):
Those commercial breaks are built in.
Charlie Rymer (15:39):
Right. Exactly. But in golf, you got to go to a commercial break at some point. So then you have to tape stuff while you’re gone, then you come back and you show the tape stuff. Then while you’re showing tape stuff, other cool stuff is happening. Then you show that on tape or do you update and then go to live. The golf producers and that’s the person who’s sitting in a chair, making the calls are some of the highest IQ people I’ve ever met in my life.
Charlie Rymer (16:03):
Like Tommy Roy with NBC is a legend in our business.
David Williams (16:07):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (16:07):
Lance Barrow recently retired from CBS. I had a chance to work for Lance. The smartest producer that I ever worked for his name is Andy Young. Andy Young was, well still is, he’s one of, you know, how you run into like people that are successful and got multiple degrees?
David Williams (16:27):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (16:27):
And then you run into the people that are like super, super successful. And the people with multiple degrees work for them.
David Williams (16:33):
Yes.
Charlie Rymer (16:33):
And these people were so smart that college couldn’t even teach them anything. So they dropped out.
David Williams (16:38):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (16:39):
And that’s like producers, Andy young is that way. He could produce and direct and do the whole nine yards and you can’t keep up with what all he’s doing. He’s like three or four shots ahead. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Calling it. And just to learn how they operate, how they do it… You take Tommy Roy doing a U.S. Open with, I don’t know, there’s got to be 90 plus cameras out there plus tape machines, plus all these options he can do and it, he’s got to make the call and go do it. It’s unbelievable how complicated that is.
David Williams (17:12):
And like, you know, from going to a handful of go golf tournaments and seeing, I remember being at the PGA at Quail Hollow back in maybe 12, 2012 or 2013, I think it was 2013. But walking around and like stumbling upon where all those trucks and everything are parked, it’s a legitimate office park almost.
Charlie Rymer (17:38):
It’s big time.
David Williams (17:39):
It was unbelievable because, and I just like stood there kind of looking at it and I’m like, because this is when I was still in broadcasting school thinking I might be on camera,
Charlie Rymer (17:46):
Yeah.
David Williams (17:46):
-but, and I was looking at it, I’m like, holy cow, like I couldn’t even begin to [crosstalk 00:17:52] imagine how all of that stuff works.
Charlie Rymer (17:55):
Yeah. No, it’s again, a lot of really smart, super talented people. I’ve had a chance to broadcast the Olympics and walking around in the International Broadcast Center of the Olympics and being able to get behind the scenes and see what’s going on there. It’s absolutely crazy. In fact, what they do at NBC for the Olympics is wow. Before and existing Olympics is even finished, they’re breaking down what’s there and taking it to the next site for two years away. And it takes them that long to set that up for the next site and the next site. The logistics is phenomenal.
David Williams (18:34):
Insane. It’s crazy to think about. I want to circle back kind of to something you said, you know, you were rattling off broadcasters you’ve worked with and you know, Gary McCord and David Feherty, what is it like to work with, you know, as fans, you hear, you know, we miss Gary McCord and all those guys on TV. What’s it like, what makes them so different? What makes them stand out amongst everybody else?
Charlie Rymer (18:57):
Well, Gary McCord once told me this. He said, he said, you should try out to be a broadcaster. He said, you’re perfect for it. And I said, I’m not qualified to be a broadcaster. He said, you are an idiot. And that qualifies you to be a broadcaster. So some people come in and they’ll, they’ll try. And they’ll, you know, like having a ear piece in, somebody’s talking to you while you’re talking, you got to process all this information. Some people just can’t do it. Some people can do it. Then a lot of times it’ll be like, well, you’ve got an extra gene if you can be a live broadcaster and I’d argue, you’re a few short. So it’s some of the things that you can learn. Their skills that you can learn. Interviewing is something that I just thought it was just sitting down and blah, blah, blah.
Charlie Rymer (19:55):
Well, if you’re doing a live interview on network television, you just can’t wing it. You have to have a game plan.
David Williams (20:03):
You got to be prepared.
Charlie Rymer (20:03):
But then you have to have this flexibility to do it. The interesting thing is that nobody ever teaches you how to do it. You have to figure it out on your own or have other broadcasters help you. Bill Macatee, a long time CBS announcer, after I butchered a live interview with tiger Woods, he found me after the show and he said, let’s sit down and talk. And I’m like, okay. And he said, nobody ever taught you how to do an interview did they? And I said, is it that obvious? He said, yep. And so he helped me through the process, but there’s, there’s not like a team of people,
David Williams (20:35):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (20:36):
-that are coming in to teach you how to do stuff.
Charlie Rymer (20:39):
It’s sink or swim. And typically they’ll throw you in the deep end of the pool to just see how you do. It’s an interesting business. It sort of gets in your blood. If you like doing it, you know, you have to do it and you have to, but for some people, like you found out very early, it’s not for you. And that’s fine.
David Williams (21:02):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (21:02):
And it’s good that you did because some people try for a while before they figure out.
David Williams (21:06):
And they keep going. They keep going.
Charlie Rymer (21:06):
Yeah. Yeah. But, but again, there are certain skills that you can learn and then certain things you just have to be born with.
David Williams (21:14):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (21:15):
For example, the U.S. Open at Erin Hills, the hotel that the announcers were staying in, the TV crews were in, it was, it was like an hour and 20 minutes away. So I had to be on site when I was doing the morning show at Golf Channel. I had to be on site at something like 3:30am local. Right. So there’d be four other announcers and we’d get in the car and we’d drive out through these corn fields in Wisconsin and four announcers on a phone talking to somebody at the same time, in a small car, in the big announcer voice. Everybody can hear everything that everybody’s saying.
David Williams (21:58):
Oh Lord.
Charlie Rymer (22:00):
It would drive everybody crazy, but not us. That’s just environment you work in. That’s like, I don’t know how you would find these traits, but that’s a trait that you have to have to be able to be an announcer.
David Williams (22:14):
It just sounds like something you’re kind of born with.
Charlie Rymer (22:17):
You’re born with it.
David Williams (22:17):
Like you don’t, that’s not something that, that’s not something they would’ve taught me in broadcasting school.
Charlie Rymer (22:21):
Yeah. Exactly. I would’ve liked to gone to broadcasting school because at the top of the show, we were having some fun with it, but really all the machines and stuff, I don’t have any idea how any of them work. And some of the terms that get thrown around, you know, like I got enough pride to like, you know, an obvious term like layout.
David Williams (22:39):
Yep.
Charlie Rymer (22:40):
It took me like five years to figure out that layout meant shut the hell up.
David Williams (22:44):
Yes.
Charlie Rymer (22:45):
And I didn’t know. And nobody would tell me and I’d act like I knew what the term was and I can’t remember exactly how I figured, well, I think somebody finally, you know, do you not know that layout means shut the hell up? And I went, wow, I finally got that.
David Williams (22:59):
Yeah. That makes sense.
Charlie Rymer (23:00):
Yeah.
David Williams (23:01):
Yeah. It’s, you know, broadcasting school and for anybody like out there that has a family member, somebody that wants to do it, it’s, it doesn’t hurt to give it a shot because you do, like, I learned a lot of things. It’s not just performance classes and learning to edit and stuff like that. I had no prior video editing experience going into that. So that was a big learning curve for me. And you got to kind of spend some time, you got to, you have to fail a lot.
David Williams (23:24):
You have to fail a ton and you know, stuff isn’t always going to go right. You’re going to make a lot of mistakes and that’s just part of life.
Charlie Rymer (23:32):
Right.
David Williams (23:32):
And kind of the quicker you can, the quicker you can,
Charlie Rymer (23:35):
Fail early.
David Williams (23:36):
Yes. And the quicker you can kind of get over that and pick yourself back up and like put yourself back out there, like get yourself back out to film that next story. Hunt down that next lead that you heard about. Write that script. Get on live radio. Just do it, you know. In broadcasting, it’s kind of about bouncing back.
Charlie Rymer (23:58):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And not taking things personal.
David Williams (24:00):
Exactly.
Charlie Rymer (24:01):
And then the other thing is over the years, I’ve had a lot of young people ask me you about getting into broadcasting. You, for every thousand calls you make, you’ll get one call back.
David Williams (24:12):
Yes.
Charlie Rymer (24:13):
And it’s just something about our business. People don’t return calls. They don’t recall. They don’t return emails. Don’t take it personal. Because if you’re trying to break into live broadcasting, you got to realize that who you’re contacting, they’ve either just finished a show and they’re trying to wind down or they’re getting ready to do a show,
David Williams (24:33):
Yes.
Charlie Rymer (24:33):
-and they don’t have time to deal with you. You have to be incredibly persistent to get on their radar, get their attention and have them give you a shot. And when you get a shot and live broadcasting, it doesn’t matter what it is, you got to take it.
David Williams (24:47):
Yes, absolutely.
Charlie Rymer (24:48):
Yeah. I mean, if it’s like, I’ve never met her, I have tremendous respect for her, but Erin Andrews who got on with the ESPN is now with Fox. She’s a tremendous broadcaster. The way I heard she got in the business was when Cruz would come through Atlanta, she would just go and say, “hey, how can I help?” And it started out just bringing coffee, you know? I mean, literally bringing coffee. Then it was like, “Hey, somebody didn’t show, can you do this?” “Yes.” “Can you do that?” If it’s running cable, if it’s, whatever it is, [crosstalk 00:25:20] that’s how you have to get into this business.
David Williams (25:23):
Absolutely. I remember one of our, one of my teachers in college told us, he said, you know, and he warned, he had, he worked in broadcasting for years and still did for Fox 5 Nashville. And he was like, it was our capstone class, senior year. We’re all getting ready to graduate. And he was like, look, he said, “it’s not going to be easy, but there are a lot of jobs out there” he said, but you’re going to have to be borderline annoying.
Charlie Rymer (25:49):
Yeah.
David Williams (25:50):
I mean, he goes, you make three phone calls, go ahead and make three more.
Charlie Rymer (25:55):
Right.
David Williams (25:55):
He said, because you can’t sit back and rely on it. You have to keep pushing and pushing.
Charlie Rymer (26:00):
That’s the way you got to do it.
David Williams (26:02):
Yep.
Charlie Rymer (26:02):
Kelly Tillman, who grew up right here in Myrtle beach, played college golf at Duke. A lot of people don’t realize that. She thought she was a pretty good player until she saw Annika play one day and then she decided she better do something else.
David Williams (26:14):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (26:14):
But she started at Golf Channel working in the digital library. Well, back then it wasn’t digital, but that’s where she got her start. And he was very persistent and she ended up being the first female to call play by play in in a major sport. She’s had a phenomenal career. I’ll tell you who I like watching her career and she’s super nice as Amanda Balionis [crosstalk 00:26:42] with CBS.
David Williams (26:42):
She’s awesome.
Charlie Rymer (26:43):
Yeah, Amanda, she’s just like positive and upbeat that players respect her. She works her tail off.
Charlie Rymer (26:51):
She started, I first saw her, she was working for the PGA Tour back before PGA Tour Live and taking the assignments, doing what she needs to do and just working her way to the top. And just by doing a great job and listen, this is the other thing that drives me nuts, if you’re in live TV and I see young people all the time, you don’t get the luxury of being late.
David Williams (27:19):
No. No. No. No.
Charlie Rymer (27:19):
The number one thing is like on time. Right. You know, I mean, you have got to be on time.
David Williams (27:24):
Yes.
Charlie Rymer (27:24):
But, that work ethic getting in early, staying late, doing whatever needs to be done. I mean, that, that’s what Amanda did and now she’s at the top.
David Williams (27:34):
And she’s awesome.
Charlie Rymer (27:34):
Yeah. She’s great. Yeah. And you can see it with interaction with the players and because they all know that she’s really good and she worked her butt off to get there.
David Williams (27:45):
Yes.
Charlie Rymer (27:45):
So yeah, it’s definitely cool to see that.
David Williams (27:49):
It is. And I go back to her. One of my favorite moments of hers was Dustin Johnson’s interview she did with him after he won the Masters back in 2020. You know, Dustin is this character, you never, we never think, we think he’s just kind of going through the motions, walking around doesn’t care. And she made him cry in a post round interview and it’s like, hey, like that’s a good interviewer.
Charlie Rymer (28:15):
Yeah.
David Williams (28:15):
And that’s a really good interviewer.
Charlie Rymer (28:17):
Yep. Yep. She’s she’s good. The skill that I learned from, as I mentioned from Bill Macatee on interviewing, the first few times you do it, you get so caught up and what am I going to ask? What am I going to ask? What’s my next question? What’s my next question? That you don’t hear the reply to your last question.
David Williams (28:38):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (28:38):
And while you have to have an idea of the direction you’re going to go, if your subjects say something incredibly interesting, you have to be able to throw your plan out and go that direction. And I’ll give you an example where I really screwed this up. I was doing a live interview with Tiger Woods in the locker room at Castle Pines in Denver, the International Old Stableford Tournament. It’s not a funny example. There’s nothing funny about it, but just showing you how bad you can mess up. I’m interviewing Tiger. Nobody’s ever told me how to do interviews.
Charlie Rymer (29:20):
He says something about a remark about his dad, you know, having a heart attack and it’s starting to get a little personal, how much his dad means to him and the tough situation he’s in with his health. I didn’t hear any of that. I’m thinking about the next thing I’m going to ask him instead of, you know, following up with that or properly acknowledging what he just said. I asked him something and I thought was going to get a funny response.
David Williams (29:49):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (29:49):
And so coming off of him, talking about his dad, having a heart attack, I’m like, great, great. Tell me if you had any of the milkshakes that they have around here, you know, and he just looked at me like, I’m crazy, but that’s me,
David Williams (30:01):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (30:02):
-completely screwing up an interview, you know? To this day I’m embarrassed by it, but I learned, and I never did that again. And what Bill Macatee from CBS told me was after that, we went to dinner that night and he goes, if you’re going to be doing interview, always have like two questions in your pocket that are generic, that might not be award-winning questions. But if you get caught up and you feel like you’re choking, you can ask those questions and it’ll get you out of the hole you’re in and get you back on track.
David Williams (30:32):
Kind of like fallback questions.
Charlie Rymer (30:33):
Yeah. Fallback questions. Yep. And that’s exactly what I learned.
David Williams (30:37):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (30:38):
It really helped me a lot and it freed me up to where, okay, I’m not so worried about what my next question is, but I’m listening to the subject.
David Williams (30:48):
Yes.
Charlie Rymer (30:49):
You see it sometimes when a player will do an interview and it’ll be going along the lines of, hey, you’ve been putting like crap all year and today you had 21 putts. It’s the best putting round you’ve ever had and your life tell me about it. And then players like, well, yeah, birdie this whole, this whole, this whole. And I made this change that really helped me. And then instead of saying, well, what was the change you ask them about, you know, something else.
David Williams (31:13):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (31:14):
You know, when, when they’re, they’re like wanting to answer the question, all you got to do is say, tell me the change.
David Williams (31:18):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (31:18):
And people are listening, going like, yeah, what’s the change? And then you whiff on it because you didn’t hear them say that.
David Williams (31:24):
Yeah. That’s and you know, kind of going back to what we were talking about a little bit ago, it’s, you’re going to make mistakes and you just have to be okay with that. And like you did, you have to build on those mistakes. And like, you had good people like Bill Macatee said help being able to help you out.
Charlie Rymer (31:40):
Yeah.
David Williams (31:41):
And if you can have that good support system in broadcasting, not everybody does, but you know, if you can find that one or two people that are willing to help you out, it makes the biggest difference.
Charlie Rymer (31:52):
Well, and what’s cool about it and I know we’re probably going to wrap up here in a second, but that’s how you learn golf as well.
David Williams (31:59):
Yes.
Charlie Rymer (31:59):
That’s how you learn a lot of things, you know? That’s why it’s so important, just don’t be a jerk, you know, and talk to people.
David Williams (32:06):
It’s really easy to be an asshole.
Charlie Rymer (32:07):
Right. Because there’s, if you’re trying to move along in any kind business endeavor or anything that’s important to you, you got to, there’s certain things you can learn in a book or these days it’s all on a screen, but the really important stuff, you’re going to learn from people that’ve done it.
David Williams (32:22):
Yes.
Charlie Rymer (32:22):
And if you facilitate those relationships, they’re happy to share information and help you get better. That’s how knowledge is passed down, big time,
David Williams (32:35):
Yes.
Charlie Rymer (32:36):
-in the game of golf.
David Williams (32:36):
A Million percent.
Charlie Rymer (32:37):
Yeah. So,
David Williams (32:38):
A Million percent.
Charlie Rymer (32:39):
Yeah. That probably one of the coolest things about golf. As a community, me being a PGA professional, being able to reach out to my fellow PGA professionals and having an issue with an operation or something to do with golf.
David Williams (32:53):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (32:53):
They’re more than willing to share their best practices.
David Williams (32:55):
Exactly.
Charlie Rymer (32:56):
And reaching over to superintendents and well, superintendents are different category.
David Williams (33:01):
Some of them.
Charlie Rymer (33:02):
No, but no, no, no, no, no. I love superintendents. I love giving them a hard time, but they’ll exchange ideas, you know? And that’s this whole golf community.
David Williams (33:09):
Exactly.
Charlie Rymer (33:10):
It’s cool like that. And I could count on one hand the number of people that I’ve met in golf, and I’ve been in it a long time and a lot of different areas that I think just straight up are jerks.
David Williams (33:22):
Yeah.
Charlie Rymer (33:22):
We just don’t have that many.
David Williams (33:24):
No.
Charlie Rymer (33:25):
It’s amazing if you just act decent and reciprocate and golf and that, if you’re a golfer, you’re coming to Myrtle Beach to play golf, you’re going to Pebble Beach to play golf and you get paired with somebody, if you’re just decent, you’re going to make a friend, you know.
David Williams (33:41):
Exactly.
Charlie Rymer (33:41):
A lot of times that might be a lifetime friend and you might learn something too.
David Williams (33:45):
Like I said, my grandmother always tells me she’s 86 years old, lives by herself in the same house for the past, probably 60 years or so. It’s really easy to be a nice person.
Charlie Rymer (33:58):
Yeah.
David Williams (33:58):
And you’re going to meet a lot more people being a nice person.
Charlie Rymer (34:01):
I think that’s a good way to end our show. He’s David Williams. My co-host right here on the Charlie Rymer Golf Show podcast Balls in the Air. We got a bunch of names for this show. What’s really cool about it is our brand new studio right here in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, golf capital of the world. David it’s a really good way to get out of the gates with you. I appreciate remember I’m Batman and you’re.
David Williams (34:26):
Batman. Robin.
Charlie Rymer (34:26):
Yeah. I’m going to give you a chance to move up, maybe to shake and bake.
David Williams (34:30):
Okay.
Charlie Rymer (34:30):
Yeah.
David Williams (34:31):
Oh!
Charlie Rymer (34:31):
You’re going to have to work there.
David Williams (34:32):
Yeah. I’m [crosstalk 00:34:34] to get there.
Charlie Rymer (34:34):
I’m willing to put in the work, Charlie. Thanks for having me.
David Williams (34:37):
You got it. Folks, we appreciate you joining us and we’ll see you next time on Balls in the Air Podcast.
