“Balls in the Air with Charlie Rymer” Podcast Episode 37 with Dr. Kevin Elko

He’s worked with many of the highest performing teams, coaches and athletes in sports, including Nick Saban’s Alabama football teams, and prominent sports psychologist Dr. Kevin Elko visits Charlie’s podcast this episode to discuss how the mind can be conditioned to help people achieve great things – including on the golf course! Join us for an engaging listen you won’t soon forget!

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Charlie Rymer (00:16):

Hi, and welcome into the Charlie Rymer Golf Show! We’re thrilled you could join us here today from Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, the Golf Capital of the World. We try to talk all things golf and it’s things that I like to talk about, because it is the Charlie Rymer Golf Show and I’m Charlie Rymer. So, it’s my show. I get to have great guests, just like we have today. We have Dr. Kevin Elko, sports psychologist. And before, Doc, I get into this with you, I got to tell you. I know a lot of folks hear “sports shrink” and they start thinking, “Yeah, yeah, that’s a bunch of garbage.” I can tell you that I’m the kind of person, and I worked with Dr. Bob Rotella back starting in the mid 1980s, when something’s going wrong in team or business, or with me with golf, a lot of times the sports psychologist is the last person that gets called.

Charlie Rymer (01:03):

But with me, it’s the first person that gets called. You’re the secret sauce in teams and individual sports. You, your field, what you’ve been able to accomplish, I don’t think gets enough respect in the world of sports. And just to get started with your work that you’ve done with, in particular, in football and professional and college, and I know you spent a lot of time with Nick Saban, Doc, how many national championship rings do you have? You got to come clean with that.

Dr. Kevin Elko (01:36):

Well, first of all, I got to address something. You just called me a shrink. A proctologist is a shrink. I’m going to expand!

Charlie Rymer (01:41):

I gotcha!

Dr. Kevin Elko (01:41):

I’m going to expand. We don’t got to shrink nothing on here.

Charlie Rymer (01:46):

I gotcha.

Dr. Kevin Elko (01:47):

I’m fancy.

Charlie Rymer (01:48):

All right.

Dr. Kevin Elko (01:49):

I do have a few rings. I’m not going to come clean. Because when they can tackle and block well, I get myself a ring. I got a bunch of them. But I got a bunch of rings. Coach Saban takes care of me. I love working with him. I’ve been down there with Tide Country for a long time, and some other teams as well. I got the Bulls right now trying to get them ready for playoffs. I love working with Billy Donovan. My life, it’s been more than blessed, Charlie. It’s favored. It’s been good. My career has been a lot of fun.

Charlie Rymer (02:19):

One of the things that I’m very guilty of this from the few years that I played professional golf, people might ask me, “If you could go back in time, what would you do differently?” And I think a lot of times they’re wanting to get … I’m a big guy. They might want me to say, “Well, I need to lose a little weight or work out.” I would tell people, “I need to think better.” If you’re not on the right mental plane, being a fan of yourself, pushing yourself, in that proper frame of mind, and so many times I wasn’t, you can’t get anything done in sports. And from the outside looking in, you see an athlete that everything is perfect, they’re elegant and they just can’t perform, it’s what’s going on upstairs. And that’s what fascinates me about your field.

Dr. Kevin Elko (03:07):

Charlie, listen to this quote. And I’m going to bring it back to golf when I speak. I’m actually speaking today up here on Wall Street doing work today for New York Life, and I’ll use this phrase when I work with them today. “Attitude is a skill.” Now, we don’t understand that. We think it’s just a switch and once I switch it, I have it. And so let’s relate to golf. Golf’s a skill. What does that mean? Well, I get a vision in my head how I want to do it. Then after I get a vision how I want to do it, I go and I repetition, deliberate practice.

Dr. Kevin Elko (03:43):

I do it over and over and over till I get muscle memory. And then I go and perform it. The mistake we’re making, Charlie, is we just think attitude’s a switch. I decide to have a good attitude, I have a good attitude. No, you have to do the same step-by-step process. Here’s what a good attitude is. Here’s the way I need to practice talking to myself. Then I go do it over and over till I wire my brain with it. So, I think where you’re 100% right, it’s between the ears. But we just think, “Oh, I’m just going to choose it.” No, you practice it. It’s a skill. And once you understand that, it makes all the difference in the world.

Charlie Rymer (04:24):

One of the things that I learned from, and I keep referencing Bob Rotella because he was a great friend, is the importance of game planning. And I know in football, professional or college, nobody’s better at game planning than Coach Nick Saban. But it’s almost like when you’re setting up your game plan and you play to your strengths, you avoid your weaknesses and you think about all the different scenarios. And then when something happens and you’re in that position, if the game plan is good enough it almost needs to feel like a déjà vu. Like I’ve been there before. I’ve already thought about how I’m going to feel, what I’m going to try and accomplish. And that’s one of the things I think is misunderstood about sports psychology is your game plan, it is dependent on what’s happening in the game, but you’ve already thought about what you’re going to do in certain situations. Is that a pretty good assessment of what you maybe teach or coach that a game plan is?

Dr. Kevin Elko (05:23):

Everything happens before it happens. I have an Elko family reunion coming up in Dallas. When I walk in, Charlie, I’ll think I walked in the bar scene from Star Wars.

Charlie Rymer (05:34):

We must be related, doc.

Dr. Kevin Elko (05:37):

Hey, I’d tell all your listeners, every one of you have a crazy family member. If you’re sitting there right now thinking, “Well, I don’t,” you’re the crazy family member. But I’ll go into that thing and I better know what I’m going to do before someone even says anything. I tell people the biggest epidemic we have today is offended. Everybody’s walking around offended. So, when they say something going, “I’m going to choose not to get offended.” You really want to do what they call a go-to script. A go-to script is a set of thoughts I’m going to have that I’m going to go to.

Dr. Kevin Elko (06:09):

Here’s my favorite one. Coach Saban stole this from me now. Ready? “So what. Now what?” Bad shot. So what. Now what? The wind’s blowing. So what. Now what? And self-talk, cognitive psychology, is really what I bring to the table. So, let’s go over that phrase. Learn to quit paying attention to stuff. There’s stuff I don’t like about getting older. I don’t like that you can sneeze and pull a muscle. I like what a comedian said one time. I heard him say, he goes, “I don’t like to go to bathroom in the middle of the night and it’s in morse code.” You know what I love about getting older?

Charlie Rymer (06:49):

I relate to that.

Dr. Kevin Elko (06:52):

Hey, some of them don’t relate to that, but don’t worry [inaudible 00:06:55]. You know what I love about getting older? I say, “So what,” to everything. And if you can’t do anything about it, you got to learn to clear your mind. So what. Okay, I love Bob’s titles. “Golf is a game of pauses.” I think he said something like that. I’d go a little bit different. I don’t have his kind of success. It’s a game of quieting your mind, getting lost in what you’re doing. So, I get self-talk ready. If something happens, so what. So what. Then you’ve got to get a vision. And the next vision is now what? Now what? And “so what, now what” is the phrase I use all the time.

Dr. Kevin Elko (07:34):

Something happens. So what. Now what? There was a little town called Enterprise. They were growing cotton and the boll weevil wipes them out. Someone says, “There’s a brand new crop called the peanut. Let’s plant it.” They become wealthy from the peanut. If you go at Enterprise now, in the middle of town there’s a big statue of a bug. There’s a caption underneath it. “Thank you Mr. Boll Weevil for the role you play in our prosperity.” That’s pretty good. So what. Now what? And you’ve got to have that go-to script ready before you get in there.

Charlie Rymer (07:59):

I love-

Dr. Kevin Elko (08:01):

You have to have that style. And I just have two or three when I have my teams going to any contest. I just have, “Here’s your go-to script.”

Charlie Rymer (08:08):

Well, I love digging into this. And over the years, I’ve had a chance to dig in with the sports psychologist, some of the folks that are doing research in how the brain works. And one of the things that fascinates me, and one of the things I really struggle with personally, is emotionally taking things too personal. The fear of maybe embarrassment. And the science of what you’re doing now is actually measurable. So, when folks aren’t thinking right, or they’re in the wrong place, I’ve had them put the sensors on my head and measure things. And how your thinking impacts your physiology, the way you see things, your range of vision. This isn’t something that we’re making up cute slogans. I’m not taking away from your slogan. I love it because I think it’s wonderful, but there’s science behind what it is that you’re teaching.

Dr. Kevin Elko (09:06):

Neurons that fire together wire together. Let’s look at that phrase. Neurons that fire together wire together. That’s why you can’t just say, “I’m going to just do it one time.” Your mind’s trained. And the fact of matter in your question kind of is the answer. We’re not wired for positive. We’re not even wired for happy. We’re wired to just be safe. That’s why our minds are always looking for bad. Because your brain is a lot like your heart. It’s like your skin. It just wants to protect you. We have literally our evolution. We’ve gone and say, “Oh, I got to look for bad all over the place.” And so you have to reprogram the brain. Because we’re not naturally programmed to be focused or to be happy. We’re more to be safe. So, we’re constantly looking for the bad naturally. So, you want rewire it.

Dr. Kevin Elko (09:55):

And our brains are very plastic. I’m on a cruise with my sister and her two kids. I got my two kids a couple years ago. Her son says about a thousand times a day, “For sure.” For sure. For sure. I’d probably jump off the boat. For sure. For sure. For sure. Two weeks after that cruise, I was walking around. For sure. For sure. For sure. So, you want to reprogram your brain. I do it. What I teach people to do is to speak it until you become it. And I speak it out loud. There was an article in the Wall Street Journal that says that how you speak, “My words shall not come back void unto me. I’ll decree they be manifest under me.” How you speak means everything. I have people speak it out loud. One of the most fascinating things I’ve ever seen, more than watching the event, was Tiger’s interview after he won the Masters.

Dr. Kevin Elko (10:42):

And you could hear how he wasn’t doing praise. He was doing encouragement. “Tiger, keep plodding along. Tiger.” And if you go plod, it means to go from this spot to the next. If you want to really get a great session on sports psychology, there’s one interview. I don’t know which one it was. I think it was the Fox interview. It’s a longer one. And you hear him speaking. Get it on YouTube. How he talked to himself, how he kept on encouraging himself, how he kept on moving him from one spot to another. Now, watch this. It wasn’t pausing. It’s action. This spot to that spot. This focus to that focus. David Wells is the pitcher for the Yankees. Someone screams, “Hey, Wells. Your mother.” He just buried his mother. Now watch, Charlie, what he did. It was not positive. Watch what he did. He gave up four runs the first inning because he’s mad at the guy. Joe Torre didn’t pull him. Watch this self-talk.

Dr. Kevin Elko (11:38):

He said, “I’m not pulling you.” Gave up four runs. David Wells from the Yankees took the ball and said, “I’m going to throw with all my might at the catcher’s glove, one pitch at a time.” Pitched a no-hitter next eight innings. Trust. Trust. Used to be real good friends and haven’t seen him for a while, Dave Cook. Trust. See it. See it. Trust it. Trust is a powerful word. Trust it. Swing the club. Get the vision. Get your self-talk out on the course. Action. Trust. Swing the club. See the vision, the short game, and make sure it’s constantly on the process.

Dr. Kevin Elko (12:17):

I’m [inaudible 00:12:18] Alabama now. The process. Staying on the process. And if you listen to Tiger self-talk, one of the best sports psychology sessions you’ll ever see. He was a friend to him. He was a friend to him. Keep chopping, keep chopping. He was a good friend. And so you want to develop … Because 90-some percent of the time in golf, it’s downtime. So, you need to get your mind not just positive, but locked in to what you’re doing with your self-talk. Keep chopping. Keep stroking. Trust. Plod. Talk to you. Y’all got me fired up.

Charlie Rymer (12:54):

I’m happy to hear it. I love it. Because self-talk was something that I struggle with mightily. I’d like to get your take on this. I’ve been asked this question a few years, doc. I’ve been broadcasting now for, gosh, going on 25 years. And I’ve had a chance to interview a lot of successful business people, folks that are leaders in their sport like Michael Jordan, Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus, Tiger Woods, Tom Brady. And I always have been very interested in finding common factors that highly successful athletes and business people have in common. Because it’s certainly not technique. The highest achievers very often I don’t think had even close to the most perfect technique. What they all have in common, my take, is that every one of them, they believed that they were going to do what they did before they actually did it. And I don’t know if it’s something that they learned or something that they were born with, but I’d love to get your take on that.

Dr. Kevin Elko (13:59):

The great ones have a standard. Saban has a standard. You don’t go below it. This is a standard. We set it. It’s clear. It’s how we do it. We’ve got a standard. And we’re playing Notre Dame a few years ago. We’re winning by 28-nothing down in Miami, 28 points. Someone jumps offside, two minutes to go. Saban loses his mind. Going and losing his mind, kicking stuff, throwing stuff. And, “What’s wrong with you?” He said, “I don’t worry about the score. We have a standard. We do it right every time. It’s a standard.” So, they set a standard. It’s clear on who they are and what they are and they don’t come below it. And you’ll see the same thing in business. They set a standard. And then the other thing they do is with the people around them, match me. Just look at what I’m doing and match me. Do my standard.

Dr. Kevin Elko (14:43):

Here is the challenge. There’s a guy that wrote a book. His name’s Jim Collins. He wrote this book called Good to Great. He said, “The enemy of great is good.” Now he’s from Stanford. They’re known for Nobel prizes. I’m from West Virginia. We’re known for moonshine. He’s smarter than me, but I disagree. The enemy of great is realistic. You need an unrealistic faith. I can go over and over it with you. I’m with Nick Foles. We’re playing the Super Bowl. Working with him. Got me some jewelry on that one, Charlie. You know how that women out there say, “Diamonds are a girl’s best friend?” Well, I like them too. So [inaudible 00:15:20]-

Charlie Rymer (15:19):

I love to hear it, Doc.

Dr. Kevin Elko (15:20):

… working with them. I’m teaching them self-talk. And they’re bold. I’ll go into this in a minute. They’re not the greyhound. They’re the lion. And I’ll explain that in a minute. So, I’m working with Foles and I’m starting to work with him because our quarterback went down. And so Carson Wentz went down. And so when David became the king of Israel … So, we got your director of security, David [inaudible 00:15:44]. What did he do? He came face to face with a lion. He ran after the lion. The lion turned and fell into a pit. He jumped in the pit and killed it with his bare hands. Self-talk. Going into the Super Bowl we’re playing the Patriots. We’re playing big old Tom Brady, Belichick. You know what he was saying that whole game? “Run at the roar.” Run at that line. Go at it. Hey, you could talk it into existence. He won the Super Bowl.

Dr. Kevin Elko (16:07):

Got the MVP. I got some jewelry on that one. They’re unrealistic. They believe things. They choose to be. I can give you Tyler Perry, seven years homeless, doing plays, $140 million a year the last 10 years. J.K. Rowling, 500 million copies, Harry Potter, single parent, homeless, old typewriter, 14 times rejected. Come on, somebody. They believed. And so you got to get a little bit unrealistic in your life. My sister came to me and said, “That’s kind of why you go around speaking. You’re a speech teacher and school kind of didn’t like you.” I said, “She really didn’t like me. Not kind of didn’t like me.” I go, “You know what? I think I flunked speech class. Where I’m from they can’t even talk.” You know what? Hey Charlie, look man, I’m not, and the great ones, they’re not overachievers. They’re over-believers.

Charlie Rymer (17:05):

Preach it. I love hearing that.

Dr. Kevin Elko (17:08):

Why you get me all fired up in here? So, after they get fired up, after they get the vision, they go set a standard. And then we’ll get into delivery of practice in a minute. Then they get into delivery of practice. They practice. They just don’t do it. They see it. And then they get into delivery of practice to become it.

Charlie Rymer (17:27):

In the world of golf, and a lot of people don’t really understand this, but even the greatest players, their win percentage is so low. You have to deal with failure so much. Let’s say you have a 20-year NBA career, that’s a little unrealistic, 10-year NBA career and you get traded around a few teams, you’re going to be somewhere between 45% and 55% win percentage. If you have a 15-year golf career and you win once a year and three of those are the right tournaments, you’re a Hall of Fame member, but that means that you’ve lost 24 times a year. So, the win percentage, the failure percentage that golfers have to deal with is brutal. So, I think it’s even more important how you deal with failure in the world of golf than maybe in any other sport. What do you think about that, Doc?

Dr. Kevin Elko (18:24):

I think all life is fail forward. I think that you either go down a road that you fail or you go down a road you fail and you learn. And I think all life is, Charlie. I think everything is. I think when you go out, the price of admission is always embarrassment for starters and you have to choose faith and you choose it first and you don’t let the outside world define it. Live in the world, not of the world. And most people constantly let their attitude, their identity … You choose it. I mean, you choose it. Here’s the deal I teach everybody. You’re either the greyhound or the lion. The greyhound chases that rabbit around the track because it’s hungry. This is Alabama, me and Saban stuff. If it’s not hungry, don’t chase. It does not chase. Here comes a big point.

Dr. Kevin Elko (19:11):

It’s a feeling. That lion can hunt. That lion can eat Monday. The lion can eat Tuesday. The lion can eat Wednesday. You walk in front of that lion on a Thursday, he’ll tear your butt up. It eats every day. It’s his DNA. It’s his DNA. The lion’s not the tallest. That’s the giraffe. The lion’s not the biggest. That’s the rhino. The lion is not the smartest. That’s the hyena. And the lion don’t care if the hyena’s laughing at it. It’s not the strongest. That’s the elephant. So, why does it dominate? Attitude. Now, here comes the point. It’s not a feeling. It’s a choice. Let’s quit letting our feelings drive everything. You choose faith. You choose your attitude. Do the right thing. Let your feelings catch up with you. The great ones, the great ones, they don’t let the outside define it. They choose it. The mediocre ones, it’s a feeling.

Dr. Kevin Elko (19:59):

They’re the greyhound. The great ones, they’re a lion. Now, what do I mean by choosing it? You talked about being offended. If I get up and I’m offended Monday, offended Tuesday, don’t have to pick it on Wednesday. I was up here in New York City and I heard his heart transplant doctor speaking. He was going on before me. You know if you get a heart transplant, you’ll pick up their urges? That’s why we talk about cellular memory in our field. If that person liked chocolate, you’re going to start eating chocolate. If that person liked beer, you’re going to start drinking beer. Hey Charlie, if you ever get my heart, keep your mouth shut. The world don’t need to know about none of that. That’s me and you. I came on your show. Anyway.

Charlie Rymer (20:45):

Doc, that-

Dr. Kevin Elko (20:45):

So, my point is, if you do it every day like the lion, it gets in your DNA. That’s what people got to get right. Practice thinking that every day. Neurons that fire together wire together. Practice being focused. Practice getting lost in what you’re doing. Do it over and over. And practice believing in yourself. Frank Szymanski had to testify in his civil suit, played in Notre Dame. And he’s on the stand. Judge says, “How good are you?” “Don’t ask me that, judge.” “How good are you?” He said, “I’m the best offensive lineman who ever played at Notre Dame.” Next day he’s back on campus. His coach, Frank Leahy said, “Did you really say you’re the best offensive lineman who ever played at Notre Dame?” He said, “Yeah, I did, Coach.” “Why’d you say that?” He said, “I didn’t want to. I was under oath.”

Charlie Rymer (21:33):

That’s wonderful.

Dr. Kevin Elko (21:33):

It’s choice and you choose it, Charlie. You don’t let the outside define it. You keep choosing it. Act like you are [inaudible 00:21:40].

Charlie Rymer (21:41):

I love it. You got me fired up. I appreciate what you do in the world of sports. In particular, I appreciate that you’re in New York City talking to our business leaders. And I love when the lessons from the world of sports intersect with business, with our political leaders. It’s just inspiring what you do. And in particular, looking at the wonderful results that you get. I wanted to finish up with this, doc. If someone is watching or listening right now and they’re fired up like I am about what you’re talking, how you’re going about it, I know you’ve written maybe six or seven books, what’s a great resource for them to find out more about you and how your work and your writing on your speaking can help them?

Dr. Kevin Elko (22:31):

Go to DrElko.com. We have recordings there. We have podcasts. It’s free. We send out every Monday. We send out the thousands every Monday. I have books. The last one is Believing Is Seeing. That was published by Whitman Publishing. I have a book called The Sender about my friend Chuck Pagano who got cancer. It’s a novel. That was published by Worthy. I have one called The Pep Talk. You go to Amazon and you can order my book. Go to DrElko.com and you could order my books. And that’s a place you can go. I want to give you the best self-talk for you to say when you golf. Ready, Charlie?

Charlie Rymer (23:14):

Yes, sir.

Dr. Kevin Elko (23:14):

Listen to this, friend. I want you to say this over and over to yourself till you train your mind with it. I want you to talk to you like you’re two people and say this every time you play. “Charlie, be where your feet are.” Be where your feet are. Be in this moment. What about that last shot? Charlie, be where your feet are. Hey, what’s going to happen later? Be where your feet are. I got to take out the garbage. Be where your feet are. Talk to you and be in the moment. I understand golf is a game of pauses. I’d say different. Golf is more a game of be where your feet are. Mindfulness. Be in the spot. Clear your mind. And then say trust. I’ve done a number of these. You did a heck of a job.

Dr. Kevin Elko (24:02):

Be where your feet are. Be in the moment. No judgment. That’s the Elko system. I teach people just three phrases every time. Be where your feet are. Keep chopping. And so what, now what. And talk to you. Be a friend to you out on that course, and be a friend to you in the course of life. Keep chopping. Be where your feet are. So what, now what. I say those things all day long,

Charlie Rymer (24:43):

Well, Dr. Kevin Elko, thank you so much for your time, your inspiration, your common sense, and something we can all take away from us, those things. And be where your feet are. I absolutely love it. Doc, thank you for being on the Charlie Rymer Golf Show. We appreciate it, and the important work that you’re doing.

Dr. Kevin Elko (25:02):

Thank you, Charlie. You keep on going out and blessing people. You got a heck of a show here and you got a calling. You keep on doing what you’re doing, buddy.